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THE MONTY ROBERTS EDITORIAL SECTION - Questions & Answers

One of the world's greatest and most inspiring horseman, Monty Roberts is dedicated to leaving the world a better place for horses - and people than he found it....

This editorial section is brought to you by kind permission of Monty Roberts and produced in consultation with his team at Flag is Up Farms, California
www.montyroberts.com



Introduction


MONTY ROBERTS ANSWERS QUESTIONS

We have brought you a selection of questions asked of Monty by horse owners - and his answers. Some of this material is new and currently, as yet unpublished. This section provides a fascinating source of reference and enables all horse owners to benefit from Monty's extensive experience.

Simply click on a question and go straight to that answer, or scroll down and read the whole section.
You can come back to the top of the page at any time by clicking the 'Back' button on your browser.
On the Ground Questions
Q - Go To Answer I am afraid of catching my horse in the field. What should I do?"
Q - Go To Answer
I have a horse that is one-sided. He is perfectly fine to handle on one side, but I can do nothing with him on the other. What do I do?"
Youngstock Questions
Q - Go To Answer Monty - I have a 12 month old filly that is unhandled and may have had a traumatic experience when (along with her mother) she was caught at 8 months to be weaned and purchased by us. She's been with us since January 2004, will eat from our hand, will stand very, very close but will not allow us to touch her. I have read everything I can get my hands on but cannot find any advice on our next move. The filly has very, very overgrown feet and we HAVE to get hold of her for the farrier in the immediate future. There is quite an urgency regarding this problem.
Q - Go To Answer I am new to horses and my lovely mare Layla has produced her first foal now 9 weeks old. I haven't been able to find anything as to how you would start them off. So far I have been stroking her. I started with the top of the tail. Her little brush goes straight up in the air and her ears go into the relaxed position. Then I slowly traveled up her spine ending by scratching her wither. I have just begun stroking her flank while slowly going down her legs. She is a delightful little person and backs up to me now for her bum scratch. Am I doing this right? How do I start her to a head collar? What would you suggest? Your book is my bible.
Q - Go To Answer
I have a six-month colt foal – should I be doing Join-Up with him yet?
Q - Go To Answer What is the most important thing I should know about dealing with a two-month-old foal?"
Starting and Backing Questions
Q - Go To Answer Why is it important to start a horse in 30 minutes?”
Q - Go To Answer
We are starting a two year old filly, and putting a bridle on her and taking it off is virtually impossible. Can you tell us how we can overcome her dislike of the bridle going over her ears?
Ridden Questions
Q - Go To Answer Why does my horse shake her head up and down while we are out riding?"
Q - Go To Answer
My horse bobs his head when I ask him to tuck or collect his stride. Can you explain this?"
Q - Go To Answer
My horses’ gait is rough. How can I appear to have a good seat in the show ring?"
Q - Go To Answer
How long do you train your reining horses before showing in competition?
Q - Go To Answer I often speak to my horse and ask to turn left/right or stop or gallop, etc. and she successfully does what I ask for. Do you suggest I should continue such an exercise or shall I return to the normal/traditional way of training?
Q - Go To Answer
How do you make a performance horse more valuable?
Q - Go To Answer
My horse won't change leads.

Behavioural & Equine Psychology Questions

Q - Go To Answer Does yawning have a meaning for horses?"
Q - Go To Answer
I had two horses at home and I brought a new one in. One horse accepted him and the other did not. Can you help with this?"
Q - Go To Answer
Would you say that it is acceptable to geld horses in order to make them easier to handle?"
Q - Go To Answer
Monty, what do you think? Do horses dream?"
Q - Go To Answer
I have a retired Thoroughbred racehorse that has been out on a farm for three years with other horses. He is now getting back in form, but he can’t cope when I take the other horses away from him. He gets all worked up, and runs towards the fence like he is going to jump it just so he can be with them. Is there any way to sort this out? I have tried separating them little by little and he is getting a bit better, but I can't take my other horses out riding without the risk of this one hurting himself."
Q - Go To Answer Why does my horse perform perfectly at home, but when I take him to a big show he 'chokes'?"
Q - Go To Answer
An old-timer told me that horses of different skin color have different sensitivities and that the darker the skin (like true black), the more sensitive a horse will be. He told me that greys are the least sensitive and will take all kinds of kicking and/or spurring while a black horse will not tolerate it. And he said that sometimes the way a horse is being ridden if it happens to have sensitive skin will cause the horse to appear to be rank, or nervous, or unmanageable. For example, some horses might start bucking because a person is putting their heels into its side which shouldn't normally be a problem except the horse is just extra sensitive. What is your experience with this? I have found that it is even true with dogs."
Q - Go To Answer
I have a 7 year old Quarter horse gelding that is a cribber. What should I do to get him to stop this? And second, will the other horses in my barn learn this bad habit from him?
Q - Go To Answer Is there a difference between wild horses and domestic horses in terms of lameness?

Training Techniques Questions

Q - Go To Answer Why do you feel that 'sacking out' is an undesirable training technique?"
Questions to Monty...
Q - Go To Answer At 70 years of age, how can you possibly handle the schedule that we read about on your website? It would seem impossible that you can change continents, time zones, and even hemispheres with the pace that is evident on your website."
Q - Go To Answer How do you respond to being called 'controversial'?"
Q - Go To Answer Do you ever have a horse that does not respond to your methods?"
Q - Go To Answer I’ve read that you are working with children using the same principles that you do with horses. How do you make the transition from horses to children?"
Q - Go To Answer Mr. Roberts, I guess my question is, “Why you?” Why do you think you made these discoveries when human beings had 8,000 years to understand horses and suddenly you reverse the methods that preceded you?
Q - Go To Answer Can anyone become a horse whisperer? It inspires me the way that humans can communicate with horses and I would love to do this.
On The Ground Questions...

Question: I am afraid of catching my horse in the field. What should I do?

If you are afraid to go catch a horse in the field, then do not do it. A horse can sense fear and has the potential to get you into a lot of trouble. Learn how to move around a horse and get an older, trained horse to work with before you take any chances out in the field. Once you can move around a horse well and you know where he is going, you’ll be more comfortable going and catching your horse. Learn the Language of Equus (page 11 in From My Hands To Yours), and study Catching Horses (page 177 in From My Hands To Yours).
Question: I have a horse that is one-sided. He is perfectly fine to handle on one side, but I can do nothing with him on the other. What do I do?
This one-sided condition can result from two distinctly opposite causes. One could be that the horse has been handled virtually entirely on the good side, but ignoring the opposite side, or the horse has been abused on the bad side. No matter what the situation is, the process to correct it is virtually the same. I suggest that you use Join-Up. I recommend three or four sessions on consecutive days, or until your horse is relaxed, following you and perfectly comfortable being with you. I would add to that two or three sessions with the Dually Halter. I would then begin to work on the bad side with the artificial arm (see “Your Horse and the Farrier,” page 127 in From My Hands To Yours). I would use the artificial arm as it will allow you to effectively work with your adrenaline down. Gradually, gain the trust of your horse and this problem will go away.
Youngstock Questions...
Question: Monty - I have a 12 month old filly that is unhandled and may have had a traumatic experience when (along with her mother) she was caught at 8 months to be weaned and purchased by us. She's been with us since January 2004, will eat from our hand, will stand very, very close but will not allow us to touch her. I have read everything I can get my hands on but cannot find any advice on our next move. The filly has very, very overgrown feet and we HAVE to get hold of her for the farrier in the immediate future. There is quite an urgency regarding this problem.

Any person preparing a horse to be trimmed or shod by the farrier should take this responsibility seriously. I have seen extremely wild and fractious horses that require a week or more to be prepared for the farrier’s visit. During this training period the sessions might take up to an hour a day. Half-hour sessions twice a day are not a bad idea.

In every country I have visited, I have found that some people believe that the farrier can educate the horse himself when it comes to standing and behaving while the footwork is done. This is an unacceptable mind-set. A farrier is a professional and should be treated as such. His expertise is to care for your horse’s feet, not to train him. While it is true that some farriers are also good horsemen and quite capable of doing the training, most horse owners do not plan to pay the farrier for training services. The farrier often feels that he is being taken advantage of and should not be required to take the time necessary to train. This can result in short tempers, and horses dealt with in an inappropriate way. While farriers are generally physically fit, muscular and capable of administering harsh treatment, should something like this occur, the blame should rest with the people securing their services, and not the farrier.

Starting to prepare your horse to meet the farrier should preferably be done just after weaning, but you might inherit an older horse that has not had this education. So I’m outlining the following procedure for yearlings and older horses.

I would suggest that your student be introduced to the round pen and go through one, two or three Join-Ups on successive days. Once Join-Up has been achieved and your horse is perfectly willing to follow you with his adrenaline down and volunteers to stay with you comfortably, I suggest that you put your student though two or three daily sessions with the Dually Halter.

Once that has been accomplished, you are well on your way to having your horse stand comfortably while you pick up and deal with his feet. To begin the farrier-schooling process, you should first rub your horse over, or spray him, with insect repellent. He finds it disconcerting if he has to stand on three legs and can’t stomp one to remove an insect. Once the repellent is applied, you can begin to pick each foot up repeatedly. If, at this juncture, your horse is perfectly willing to give you one foot at a time and stand on the other three while you tap on the lifted foot and run a rasp over it, you are probably ready to give your farrier a call. If your student is reluctant, offers to kick, or refuses to allow you to tap or rasp the lifted foot, I suggest that you fabricate an “artificial arm,” which I’ll discuss later.

At this point, the good horseman should reflect on why a horse might react in this fashion. Each of us should quickly remember that the flight animal relies upon his legs to carry him to flee for survival. We should immediately understand that acting out violently toward the horse does nothing but convince him that we are predators and out to cause him harm. Delivering pain to your student is absolutely inappropriate.

To make an artificial arm like the one I use to train horses that are difficult for the farrier, you will need the following items:

1. An old rake or broom handle, cut 3 feet (approx. 1 meter) long, or a hardwood cane with a straight-handle grip, not curved grip.
2. One heavy-duty work glove.
3. One sleeve of a discarded sweatshirt or heavy work shirt.
4. One roll of electrical, gaffer or duct tape.

Place the glove over one end of the pole and fill it with straw or shavings. Slide the sleeve into place so that the cuff can be taped at the wrist portion of the work glove. Fill the sleeve with sponge, straw or shavings, and tape the upper end of the sleeve to secure the material inside. You should have approximately one foot (30 cm) of uncovered pole for easy handling.

If your equine student wants to kick the artificial arm, do not discourage him. Return the arm to the position that bothered the horse until the horse accepts it anywhere you want to put it. Begin using the arm by massaging the body, shoulders and hips of the horse before proceeding to his legs. You can even rub the belly, and up between the hind legs. Spend considerable time in the area of the flank, as it will be often touched by the farrier’s shoulder. Bad habits can get started if the horse is still sensitive in the flank area before the leg-lifting procedures begin. Use the arm to massage all four legs until the horse is perfectly happy dealing with the procedure.

Excerpt taken from From My Hands To Yours. See more in Chapter 7 page 127.

Question: I am new to horses and my lovely mare Layla has produced her first foal now 9 weeks old. I haven't been able to find anything as to how you would start them off. So far I have been stroking her. I started with the top of the tail. Her little brush goes straight up in the air and her ears go into the relaxed position. Then I slowly traveled up her spine ending by scratching her wither. I have just begun stroking her flank while slowly going down her legs. She is a delightful little (horse) and backs up to me now for her bum scratch. Am I doing this right? How do I start her to a head collar? What would you suggest? Your book is my bible. Regards and thank you for caring about horses as you do.

One must be careful about playing games with foals. It may seem fun when they are tiny, and without the size to cause great bodily harm to you. These little characters grow up very fast, and they take their habits right along with them. If you are not careful you may create a yearling that will back up to you and if not satisfied with the scratch it receives, it just might kick you. Backing up to you is not a good habit to encourage.

My book "From My Hands to Yours" has extensive information on the rearing and early training of young horses. It is the only book that I have written which deals with the 'how to' and 'hands-on' elements of my concepts. You will find that I recommend a Dually halter for the early training of horses. You will discover that I use the particular piece of equipment called the Foal Handler. There are many aspects to properly rearing a young horse which are covered in depth in "From My Hands To Yours.

Question: I have a six-month old colt foal. Should I be doing Join-Up with him yet?

The process of establishing a relationship with your foal through Join-Up should begin once your foal has been successfully weaned and no longer calls out for his mother. Done properly, Join-Up will create a lifelong understanding between weanling and human. One or two Join-Up sessions should be enough to develop a trust-based relationship.

Keep in mind that too many sessions will be counterproductive – your foal will have the concentration span typical of babies of all species, so any work done needs to reflect this. After completing Join-Up, you can develop your foals’ skills at leading, being handled all over and having his feet picked up. I recommend that at this age, your foal has a natural life, spending lots of time at pasture with other horses. Following these guidelines should result in a happy, well-adjusted individual ready to begin his life with humans.

Chapter 10 of my training manual From My Hands To Yours details the process of bringing up your baby from birth to backing in greater detail.

Question: What is the most important thing I should know about dealing with a two-month-old foal?

The most important knowledge that I can impart to you is to be safe and work with your foal without violence and force. At two months of age, probably the most important factor is leading the foal alongside his mother. I suggest the use of the Foal Handler (page 134 in From My Hands to Yours: Lessons from a Lifetime of Training Championship Horses). I further suggest that it is important to groom and pick up feet, encouraging your foal to stand and to be comfortable with you during these procedures.

Starting & Backing Young Horses Questions...
Question: Why is it important to start a horse in 30 minutes?

Since the publication of my books, our office receives approximately 100 questions a week from horse people worldwide. I am often asked “Why is it important to start a horse in 30 minutes?” I attempt to address this question in every demonstration that I do, but apparently I fail to make myself clear enough to the audience. In this column I will attempt to put this question to rest once and for all.

It is not important to start a horse in 30 minutes. I start a horse in 30 minutes in my demonstrations because I believe that it will allow the audience to see the full process without having to wait hours and hours to complete it. I often say that if the process is effective enough to complete in 30 minutes, then it is a good demonstration for public audiences. I tell the people that if they choose to take a week to do what I do in 30 minutes, that’s fine. I go on to say that I much prefer to start the horse after a few days of preliminary preparation.

In the course of starting horses at home, I go through the mouthing and long lining process that I describe in my From My Hands To Yours book for a week or so before we actually put a rider on. It is an easier transition for the horse and safer for the people as well.

When I do a demonstration, the only way I could duplicate this process is to ask the owners to execute these procedures at home before bringing their horse. As you might imagine, this would be impossible. I wouldn’t know if they did it at all, let alone whether it was done properly. Furthermore, I have no contact with the owners before the demonstration, and I believe that’s the way it should be done. I certainly could not send people around to do these procedures, as this would create an immense amount of criticism that the horse was already trained.

As it is now, people will say it looks too easy. Some critics will state that the horse was already trained, even when we work hard to maintain a separation between my organization and the owners. If I somehow could complete these early procedures before each of the demonstrations, most of the people would hold the opinion that the horse had been ridden before. It is my hope that horsemen will read From My Hands To Yours and complete mouthing and long lining before they start their horse. If they learn and use Join-Up� properly, they too will come to know how easy it can be.

There are some individuals who think that it is a trick and so they investigate this work in a negative way. Some will even say that I use medications to help in the starting process. This is absolutely untrue and every owner knows that this doesn’t happen. Anyone who understands horses will quickly realize that no medication is used. I am strongly opposed to the use of medications in attempting to train horses in any field. I do not believe that it is effective and, if I did this without revealing it, it would be totally dishonest.

It is my hope that the information here more clearly defines the time required to start horses and that people everywhere will be able to learn more about the techniques of working with horses in the absence of violence and force. I believe they will have more fun with their horses if they accomplish this, and the horses will be happier and more successful.

Question: We are starting a two year old filly, and putting a bridle on her and taking it off is virtually impossible. Can you tell us how we can overcome her dislike of the bridle going over her ears?

I would estimate that 90% of head-shy horses are man-made, caused by people striking the horse’s head with ropes or whips, or ‘twitching’ an ear. It is also important, however, to acknowledge those 10% of horses that are head-shy without the intervention of a human. In these cases, physical discomfort of some type is the cause, and it is imperative to have your horse checked for lice, ticks or other parasites as well as dental problems before you start to re-train the behavior.

Trust is the key to enabling your filly to relax while you handle her ears. Trust is the key to everything I do around horses. The first step is always using Join-Up to build and repair trust using the horse’s language, Equus. You should then start handling her head, using the advance and retreat methods outlined in the ‘Head-Shy Horse’ chapter of my book, “From My Hands To Yours”. If at all possible, buy the Dually halter so you can train your filly to yield to pressure on her head instead of flinging her head up into the pressure. It is important that when the filly momentarily accepts the feeling of your hands around the sensitive areas on her head, you walk away instantly, thus releasing the pressure on her.Once you and your filly are comfortable and relaxed with this process, you can move onto introducing a hair dryer to her. Spray her with water so she is wet over her head and neck, and have a handler hold her so you can operate the dryer. Holding the hair dryer away from your filly, gradually move the flow of air over her hindquarters and up to the shoulder, beginning to condition her to the flow of air and motor sound. Start to move the flow of air over her head and ears, and use advance and retreat methods until she begins to accept the stimulus. Once she is comfortable with the air blowing directly on her ears, you can start to use your hand on and around her ears, and introduce a brush/clippers etc.

Please find and read a copy of my book “From My Hands To Yours” if possible, as this book outlines the process in far greater detail, with diagrams and photos to assist your learning. We also have a video named ‘Fix-Up 1’ that details the process, and you can attend training programs here at Flag Is Up Farms to help your filly re-learn the appropriate behavior.

Ridden Questions...
Question: "Why does my horse shake her head up and down while we are out riding?"
While I am not one who quickly recommends equipment to solve problems with horses, I suggest that the use of a black iron bit with copper inlaid in the mouthpiece is often helpful with a horse who habitually tosses her head. Once you have secured the proper mouthpiece, I then recommend a process of bitting up or mouthing (From My Hands To Yours, pages 33–35). I fully describe a process of bitting up that I believe will help the equestrian where head-tossing is concerned. It is critical for every rider to understand that the human hands are usually the culprit in creating a horse that tosses his head. As equestrians, we should always look inward before blaming the horse.
Question: My horse bobs his head when I ask him to tuck or collect his stride. Can you explain this?

Answer: Virtually every time a horse misbehaves from the standpoint of head carriage, it is caused by the rider’s hands. Whether we realize it or not, horses can only react to our signals; they just don’t continue without cause. I suggest the following mouthing procedure be employed.

I have found the use of side reins to be the most effective treatment for the behavior you describe. Attach a pair of elastic and leather side reins to a breastcollar, and allow the horse to toss his head, simply meeting the side reins and stretching the elastics. Normally, horses will stop the head tossing after four or five sessions as recommended here. I have used this method of mouthing a horse for well over 50 years now and have found it to be the most effective.

To learn more about side reins and how to effectively use them, I encourage you to visit my book, From My Hands To Yours. Page 33 describes the causes and curses of bad manners related to head bobbing.

Question: My horses’ gait is rough. How can I appear to have a good seat in the show ring?

Answer: There are two major factors involved when it comes to presenting a pleasing appearance on a Western horse while sitting at the trot. The gait of the horse and the ability of the rider are those two factors. There is a minor facet and that would be the equipment used.

While the gait of the horse is in fact his inherent property, there are things we can do to modify it. When a Western horse trots in a rough, pounding fashion he is typically far worse the faster you trot. If one can concentrate on training your horse to trot very slowly, the roughness is reduced dramatically.

The rider can improve a look of the trot by carefully studying all of the factors involved in sitting smoothly while trotting. The rider’s ankles usually play a significant role in acting as shock absorbers at this gait. The knees, thigh muscles and certainly waist and upper body can all be trained to provide a judge with a more aesthetically pleasing picture.

The issue of equipment, while relatively minor, can come into play in an effort to cause the trot to look smoother. A very low cantle will generally accentuate the bouncing motion of the rider’s posterior. A saddle that is slightly more elevated front and rear will help a rider to appear more comfortably nestled at the trot. Loose clothing with fringy projections would tend to accentuate the trot. Even the hairdo will sometimes accentuate the roughness of the horses’ gait or cause it to seem smoother.

Question: How long do you train your reining horses before showing in competition?

Answer: Most of the world-class trainers that I have known would answer this question in a fairly similar fashion to how I will answer it. It is very difficult to expect a horse to execute the procedures necessary for competition with less than one full year of training. Even at that level the reining horse should still be considered a baby. It is my opinion that with one year’s training any competition should be limited to very few competitive events. A sustained schedule of competitions for the horse with one year’s training will generally result in resentful horses.

I consider 2-3 years to be optimum in maximizing the performance of the reining horse. Even after three years, with a horseman-like approach, the reined horse is apt to continue to improve. Most reined horses reach their full potential in the 8-9 year old range.

Question: I often speak to my horse and ask to turn left/right or stop or gallop, etc. and she successfully does what I ask for. Do you suggest I should continue such an exercise or shall I return to the normal/traditional way of training?

Answer: Horses trained with voice commands are often quite successful in developing a learned vocabulary. It is my opinion that they never know what the words actually mean, but they habituate their response only after repeated requests of a traditional nature prior to responding to the voice. I notice that you are from Hungary, so I assume that you speak Hungarian to your horses, which would mean that I would need to learn that language before they would respond to me.

However, if you were to learn the language Equus, you could communicate to any horse in the world, regardless of which country they were born in. Equus is the natural body language of horses,

I do not suggest that you stop using verbal aids. I say 'whoa' to my horse when I want him to stop and I 'cluck' to him when I ask him to go. These are very similar to the sounds that you are using and I don't suggest that they are wrong. I do, however, recommend, that we couple these with the legs, the reins, and/or the headgear in the training process.

Question: How do you make a performance horse more valuable?

Answer: I am a firm advocate for never making a horse do anything. But this type of question is often asked of me. The only way that I know to elevate the value of a performance horse is to reach a higher level of excellence or win more competitions. The only way I know how to win more competitions is to reach a higher level of excellence. The only way I know to cause a horse to reach a higher level of excellence is to cause your horse to want to excel; not to try to force him to excel.

Question: My horse won't change leads.

Lead changing both for the horse and for the rider is an art form. Nature provides the horse with an inherent talent to change leads. It is when a person is involved that lead changing problems arise. The weight of a saddle and rider, and more importantly what the person does with that weight, is super-critical to the act of changing leads.

In my show career, lead changing was one of my strongest suits. It is my opinion that the act of changing leads properly should be a free ticket. There should never be a question about getting proper leads because it’s just as easy to get it right.

Obviously, any art form must be learned and there is a specific set of procedures necessary for both the human and the equine student. In my book, From My Hands To Yours, there is an extensive chapter that outlines my concepts where lead changing is concerned. If a reasonably talented rider reads that chapter and executes those recommended maneuvers, it is highly likely that the horse will perform proper lead changes.

Behavioural & Equine Psychology Questions...
Question: Does yawning have a meaning for horses?

It certainly does, and it has a critical meaning when dealing with horses. The act of yawning is to take in oxygen. One element of tiring is starving the brain of oxygen. During exertion and tension we assign oxygen to muscles needed for work. Horses in their quest for survival will enter periods of extreme concern and rob the brain severely. They’ll push themselves for a long time and then when they become satisfied that they are not going to die, they’ll relax and yawn because their system is taking over to re-oxygenate the brain. When I work with horses at starting gates, I sometimes find that it can take up to a couple of hours to achieve this state. It is a demonstrative act that means, “I’m relaxed now and I feel assured that you’re not going to hurt me.”

Question: I had two horses at home and I brought a new one in. One horse accepted him and the other did not. Can you help with this?

Answer: With a new horse, it is important to execute the introduction gradually. Horses have a social pecking order. To fail to address this issue can result in injuries to your horses. The introduction should be made only after you have created a situation where the horses can communicate over a safe fence. The process is often called “buddying up.” When you can sense complete comfort, only then should you attempt to place the new horse in the new field. This can take two or three days to possibly two or three weeks.

Question: Would you say that it is acceptable to geld horses in order to make them easier to handle?

Answer: I am a firm believer that stallions should only be handled by trained professionals. When I use the term ‘trained professionals’, I am referring to professional horse people that are very experienced in practical hands-on work with stallions. It is my opinion that all entire male horses that will potentially be handled by amateurs should be castrated.

I have many strong reasons for making this recommendation, far too many to list here. Suffice to say that stallions should be castrated unless they are going to be controlled throughout their lives by these highly skilled individuals.

I have had some of my greatest successes in competition with geldings. Even though I have been a professional in the horse business virtually all of my life, I would now greatly prefer to ride and handle a gelding. They are effective in competition and in my opinion, have lost none of their zest for life.

(Editor’s note: you can read about champion geldings such as Fiddle d’Or, Pepinics Dually, Shy Boy and Rough Frolic in Monty’s new book, The Horses In My Life)

Question: Monty, what do you think? Do horses dream?

Answer: "Do horses dream?" is a question that has been bandied about for generations. Every dog owner is certain that dogs dream, so why not horses, too?

I was in Monterey, California at a horse show and Pat entered us in a mixed team roping. Since I didn’t own a decent rope horse at the time, Pat had borrowed two horses from her cousin. I asked what I was going ride in the open roping and she replied, "Old Sergeant!" Sergeant had been a darn good heel horse in his day and was about seventeen or eighteen at the time of this event. I liked Sergeant. It was a good choice.

The two roping horses were delivered to the fairgrounds. They had been used on the ranch and, while one had shoes on that were adequate, Sergeant’s feet looked terrible. I asked Pat to make arrangements with the on-duty farrier to get some new shoes on him before the competition began the following day.

The farrier was Bill Whitney, an old friend who’d been our farrier for most of the post-war years on the Salinas Competition Grounds. Bill was quite old by this time, and he asked me if Sergeant was gentle. The horse had burrs in his mane and tail and his overall raunchy look suggested he might be a bit wild. I reassured Bill that I had roped on him dozens of times and there was no question that Sergeant was gentle. That was a given.

Bill suggested I should return in about an hour and a half. Pat and I called in at the horse show and rodeo office to go through the necessary check-in routine, had a hamburger and then moseyed back to collect Sergeant. As we walked up, we both realized that something was wrong. Bill’s assistant was walking briskly to greet us and he had a disconcerting look about him. I guess his eyes were open just a little too wide and his shoulders seemed to be a bit stiff.

"Bill’s gone to the doctor," he said. "Sergeant kicked him and they took him away in an ambulance."

"What?" I replied. "That’s not possible. Sergeant’s never kicked anybody in his life!"

The assistant told us that Sergeant had stood without incident while three shoes were easily fixed in place. In fact, he was so placid and calm it seemed like he’d fallen into a deep sleep while being shod. Then, when his leg was picked up for the last shoe, he suddenly exploded, blew hard through his nose, kicked out, pulled back and tried to run away all at the same time, and caught Bill on the leg. It was incomprehensible.

The assistant agreed to put on the last shoe and while he was doing it, Bill appeared. He had a slight limp and showed us that he was wearing a bandage under his jeans. We asked what he thought had happened. Fortunately, Bill had a big smile on his face.

"Monty, I disturbed that horse while he was dreaming about a lion, "he said. "There’s no doubt in my mind about it."

Sergeant never made a move while the last shoe was nailed on, and Pat and I were able to rope. Bill Whitney was okay to continue his shoeing for the balance of the show.

I’ve had many dreams about horses – Pat has often been woken by an arm landing across her face when I dream of being bucked off. As a child, I often dreamed of riding into the mountains, hiding away, escaping. Then I would watch myself getting stuck in the wrong place – dreams of panic and pursuit. When I was dealing with Barlet, I dreamed of being devoured by a horse.

But do horses dream? Who knows – I suppose the debate will continue until someone straps a machine on a horse that proves it one way or another. For me, I’d just like to continue thinking they do, but never knowing for sure.

- Monty (from Monty’s newest book, The Horses in My Life)

Question: I have a retired Thoroughbred racehorse that has been out on a farm for three years with other horses. He is now getting back in form, but he can’t cope when I take the other horses away from him. He gets all worked up, and runs towards the fence like he is going to jump it just so he can be with them. Is there any way to sort this out? I have tried separating them little by little and he is getting a bit better, but I can't take my other horses out riding without the risk of this one hurting himself.

Answer: Don't leave him alone! My best advice is to take him to a neighbor’s place where they have a safe holding facility and leave him near other horses to begin the process of separation. If it is absolutely necessary to leave him alone, he must be left in the safest possible stable and do that only if there is no other alternative.

Separation anxiety is rapidly becoming one of the most important remedial problems of our time. I suppose with properties becoming smaller, and horses being kept in close proximity, this bonding process is becoming more and more pervasive. Horses are herd animals. They rely upon the presence of other familiar animals to feel safe. It might be a goat, or a sheep, it might even be a dog or a cat. People can even be a calming influence if the horse regards the person as a friend. There is a lesson in this somewhere.

In my textbook From My Hands to Yours it will expand on many details that I am not able to include in this Question and Answer format. Please read chapter 10, page 178 containing details on separation anxiety.

Question: Why does my horse perform perfectly at home, but when I take him to a big show he 'chokes'?

Answer: It seems to me that you have a very clever horse. In fact, it almost seems as though he can read the newspaper, or the horse magazine that lists the upcoming horse events! Obviously, you know that this is not true, so let’s investigate how this phenomenon occurs.

‘Choking’ is reserved for human beings with performance anxiety. It is not within the make-up of a horse to view any special occasion as more important than another and perform badly.

The neocortex, the part of the brain that controls logical emotions such as planning, thinking, and imagining is half the size in the horse’s brain compared to the brain of the human. Horses simply do not have the mental capacity to be capable of experiencing these feelings of performance anxiety.

As we negotiate the calendar of events we plan for ourselves and our horses, we should be well aware of our own mental state working up to, and experiencing, performances away from home. Whether it is a trail ride or a high-level horse show, these are circumstances where we tend to get our own adrenalin up and our pulse rate higher than normal.

The one thing that horses can do far better than any human being is to read the psychological and physiological state of the individuals around them. Mother Nature has provided them with incredible skills to identify potentially dangerous predators in their environment.

Given these conditions, it becomes incumbent upon every horseperson to learn to control their own responses to the stress inherent in big shows, little shows, trail rides, and even a visit from someone they admire. Our horses will respond to our body conditions far more quickly than we ever dreamed possible.

Whether it is for your horse or yourself, it is good to take trips to large events primarily to expose you both rather than for competition, so you can change the environment both physical and psychological. This will assist the horseperson in the area of controlling themselves, and give the horse a chance to experience new territories without a request for high-level performance.

For more ideas regarding Creating a Willing Partner, see chapter 11 of Monty’s book From My Hands To Yours, page 188.

Question: An old-timer told me that horses of different skin color have different sensitivities and that the darker the skin (like true black), the more sensitive a horse will be. He told me that greys are the least sensitive and will take all kinds of kicking and/or spurring while a black horse will not tolerate it. And he said that sometimes the way a horse is being ridden if it happens to have sensitive skin will cause the horse to appear to be rank, or nervous, or unmanageable. For example, some horses might start bucking because a person is putting their heels into its side which shouldn't normally be a problem except the horse is just extra sensitive. What is your experience with this? I have found that it is even true with dogs.

Answer: Without scientific proof of my theories, I will explain to you what experience has taught me over the past six decades. It seems evident to me that many people concern themselves with hair color where sensitivity is concerned. I believe that it is far more important to look at the color of the skin as opposed to the color of the hair. If we accept these premises as gospel than the black horse with black horse with black skin sits on one end of the spectrum and the true albino sits on the other end.

I don’t believe that either of these assumptions is necessarily correct. I am also of the opinion that it is quite incorrect that black horses with black skin are the most sensitive because, I believe that in fact they tend to be the least sensitive.

If we can pull any actual scientific data into this discussion I believe that it is evidenced by companies that produce counterirritants used to increase circulation in joints requiring therapy. For the past 80 years or so, these companies have observed that chestnut horses with white legs which have light colored skin are far more sensitive to these substances. I have personally experienced significant edema with white legged chestnuts even when preparations were administered at half dose.

It is my opinion that light skinned horses have nerve ganglion closer to the surface and tend to be more sensitive than dark skinned horses. Perhaps we could locate studies done on this subject with today’s almighty internet. If any of you have information on the subject, please send it through to [email protected] and we will respond appropriately.

Question: I have a 7 year old Quarter horse gelding that is a cribber. What should I do to get him to stop this? And second, will the other horses in my barn learn this bad habit from him?

Answer: Cribbing, or crib-biting, is also called wind-sucking and a few other colloquial names. It is a habit generally thought to be motivated by boredom. I have never seen a mustang in the wild cribbing. Many of the old books will classify cribbing as a stable vice. This seems to be rather valid, since it generally occurs where horses are kept in small confines.

A cure for cribbing has been sought for many decades. There are stories about trainers that used rather harsh techniques in an attempt to train the habit of cribbing out of the horse. I have never heard of the discovery of a successful system of training any horse not to crib. Once the habit begins, it is with the horse for life. Cribbing is closely related to thumb-sucking in the human.

In recent years, certain veterinary colleges have studied and perfected a surgical technique that has been effective in about 85% of the cases. I have personally seen many horses that were corrected through this surgery, and found that they were unable to collapse the pharynx and gulp air into the stomach.

The University of Kentucky did an experiment in the 1960's and 70's on whether or not one horse could learn to crib from another. As I recall, their findings suggest that there is some learned habituation from one horse to another.

Question: Is there a difference between wild horses and domestic horses in terms of lameness? When you were studying horses in the wild did you ever notice how many of them appeared lame? Was it at all possible to ascertain from where the lameness originated? And were any of the symptoms at all similar to lameness’s that can be detected in trained and ridden horses? Any thoughts on this subject would be very greatly valued. Thanking you in advance for your time and trouble.

Answer: I don’t consider the answer to this question to be obvious at all. In fact, I regard it as a very good question. Actually, lameness observed in the wild is substantially different in character from lameness observed in domestic ridden horses. Statistics will show that ridden horses will most often be lame from conditions affecting the front legs. These problems will be seen most often in the fetlock joint or the feet of the forelegs. The knees will produce a fair percentage of lameness in the ridden horse. What we are experiencing is pressure-induced damage through concussion and/or twisting motions. Racehorses, for instance, will express lameness on the fore limbs at a rate of approximately 85%. Horses running in the wild will often tend to damage hooves while traveling over stones or rough ground. The feet are obviously never protected by the shoes the domestic horse wears while being ridden, at least in most cases. The wild horse, damaging a foot, will tend to accomplish this in about an equal rate front and rear. I have seen the feet of wild horses actually split in half. The wild horse will also suffer from infections caused by bruising or open wounds while the domestic horse will be medicated most of the time so as to stop down the infection. Abrasions and punctures are far more plentiful on the limbs of horses running wild than they are on our domestic partners. The domestic horse will suffer far more from injuries that tend to be of a concussive nature than those caused by sharp objects. In studying wild horses, one should also bear in mind that in many cases they are survivors of the fittest. We should be aware of the fact that if they had fragile feet with thin walls they would die quickly and not reproduce those shortcomings. When I look at the bottom of a wild horses foot, it is obvious at once that there are significant differences when compared with domestic feet. The walls are thicker, the angle of the foot is steeper, and the sole is akin to the hide of a rhino. Some of these characteristics are due to the physical fact that they are teased and calloused through constant work without protective covering. Young kids in third world countries who run around barefooted can walk over broken glass without a grimace. Most of us who wear good shoes can hardly get around at all when barefooted. It is true that if most of our domestic horses were just turned loose barefooted to survive in the wild, they would have a very difficult time surviving until their feet could stand the rigors of life in the wild. In conclusion, let me say that lameness is substantially different between domestic and wild horses, and I might say that I did an article in Issue I of the 2003 Join-Up Journal called ‘The advantage of going Bare’, which outlines the power of riding barefoot horses so as to improve the quality of the hoof structure. I recommend you try to get a copy of this magazine.

Training Techniques Questions....
Question: Why do you feel that 'sacking out' is an undesirable training technique?

Answer: Please allow me the opportunity to first suggest to you that one must seek an agreed definition for the term 'sacking out' before you take a stand on it. The process called 'sacking out' takes on several different forms as you travel around the world. Even here in the United States 'sacking out' will appear as one thing in New England and quite a different process in New Mexico. Nevada will regard 'sacking out' in one way, while Florida will employ a process significantly different.

Each time I have written about 'sacking out,' I have attempted to make it clear that I was referring to the process that my father used all through the thirties, forties and fifties. He would take an untrained raw horse and tie him high to a substantial post in a fence line that was made of heavy planks by passing the rope through the chin piece on the halter and then tie a bolin knot around the horse's throat latch. Ultimately the horse would be tied approximately seven feet from the ground.

With the wild horse securely tethered, he would tie a large cotton rope around the neck of the horse just in front of the shoulders. He would then cause the horse to step over that rope with one hind leg, which would allow him to use the neck portion to hoist the hind leg off the ground. The horse was then standing on three legs and likely to fall if he made a quick move. Next he would fix a canvas to a long rope and throw at the horse causing him to take fright. This would result in horses falling virtually every time it was done.

Injuries were commonplace with this system he called 'sacking out.' Teeth were knocked out as they hit the fence and lifelong scars were evident around the rear pasterns where the rope had broken the skin. My father would alternate hind legs on a daily basis until the horse was too frightened to run and would stand for the 'sacking out' in a state of quivering fear. I was the witness to the 'sacking out' process on virtually a daily basis throughout my childhood.

In England, they may use the term 'sacking out' or 'swinging.' I had one critic write an article for a magazine in England who said that I was wrong to criticize 'sacking out' and that every yearling should be 'swung.' He said that it assisted the horsemen in truly breaking the horse so that the horse became subservient to the wishes of the handler.

'Swinging' is done in a similar fashion to what my father did except that it employs a freestanding single strong post about ten feet high. The yearling is tied to that post right up near the top. No legs are tied up, but the process of frightening the horse with plastic or canvas is essentially the same as my father did. With 'swinging,' however, the horse is frightened and runs around the post wrapping him up like a tetherball. Once he has made sufficient circles of the post, then his rope is shorter and he's actually lifted so that his front legs are off the ground. It is this action that causes the process to be called 'swinging'

I use many forms of frightening objects, plastic, canvas, cloth and any number of others. However, it is absolutely essential in my process that the horses are allowed to move of their own free will. I use a Dually halter and encourage the horse to stay with me, but I do not restrain by tying. In every way I attempt to treat the horse in such a way so that I cause as little elevation of adrenalin as possible.

Once I have the horse allowing the frightening object near it, then I am quick to retract the object when the horse settles even in the slightest. Through this method I am able to cause the horse to rationalize that he is in control of the process of causing the object to go away. It is amazing how quickly this method will affect an acceptance of these scary things. True enough, it is an art form and one must learn how far to go and when to back off, but it is multiples more effective than what I regard as 'sacking out.'

This entire exercise is steeped in the premise that one should never force the horse, but allow the horse a choice. It reaches to endorse my saying that it is not right to say you must to the horse, but to request. The method that I use and endorse will, in fact, cause the horse to accept frightening things in his life, not because he is forced to but eventually because he wants to.

Questions to Monty...
Question: At 70 years of age, how can you possibly handle the schedule that we read about on your website? It would seem impossible that you can change continents, time zones, and even hemispheres with the pace that is evident on your website.

I have been very fortunate to study and become familiar with four natural substances which have allowed me to execute the schedule that would stop down most people in their 30's:

1. Melatonin
2. Coenzyme Q-10
3. Transfer Factor
4. Oligomeric Proanthocyanidins

Melatonin allows me to sleep five to six hours in what is termed REM sleep (the deepest kind). For me, sleep occurs about 30 minutes after putting a small tablet under my tongue. It contains 2.5mg of melatonin. This is a natural substance but one should check with a doctor to be sure you are free of any negative side-effects. I have experienced no negatives with my use of melatonin and have taken it every night of my life since 1991.

Coenzyme Q-10 (COQ10) this again is a natural substance, generally derived from fish. It has but one obligation, and that is to increase the oxygen in your bloodstream. I take 100mg per day after breakfast. COQ10 is size conscious, so Pat takes 60mg per day. Our bodies require oxygen to heal and to fend off invaders of one sort or another. Without oxygen, we are sitting targets for viruses and other organisms. In the presence of highly oxygenated blood, we have a much better defense mechanism.

Transfer Factor is a relatively new discovery. It is the heart and soul of colostrum. This means that the first milk of mammals (cows in this instance) is broken down so that only the factor for the enhancement of the immune system is present. The world will come to know that this element found in all female mammals for approximately 48 hours after giving birth, is one of the most important facets where enhancing our immune system is concerned. Most of the colostrum used in this process is derived from organic dairies in the beautiful grassy country of New Zealand. These dairy farms use no fertilizer, spray, or medicines connected with the cows who produce this colostrum. If a cow requires medication, she is removed from the program. The calves resulting from the births in question are fortunate that these dairy cows produce nearly 100 times the colostrum that they require. While their needs are met, there is ample colostrum available for the necessary processing to achieve Transfer Factor.

Oligomeric Proanthocyanidins are the result of decades of study worldwide. The object of the study was to obtain certain factors involving antioxidants. The first real success occurred in France and was the extraction of pine bark. Later, through a massive amount of work, the process was perfected with the seeds of red grapes. At this point in time 'OPCs' are being gathered from several other sources. Bilberry seeds, citrus, cranberry seeds, and other sources have been added to the list of botanical material from which OPC's can be gathered. I believe that the addition of this substance to the three above has resulted in a significant positive change in my life. I began the use of OPC's in September 2001, and I have the distinct impression that my ability to fend off illnesses has been greatly enhanced by its inclusion. I am of the opinion that the addition of OPC's has been responsible for an incredible improvement in my memory skills. I could give many examples, but suffice to say the improvement has been dramatic.

I have asked that a Journal article written by my wife Pat be included on this website. It outlines the fact that I have been executing a schedule for approximately 15 years now that would be considered overwhelming by virtually anyones standards. Among other things you will see that I have completed more than 1500 individual demonstration events without missing, cancelling, or even being late for one of the performances. I have experienced many trips where virtually my whole team would be negatively affected by a flu or cold bug of one sort or another, and while I felt the bug enter my system, I was normally able to kick it out within a matter of 2-5 hours. This experience has been profound.

Question: How do you respond to being called 'controversial?

Answer: Probably most often the first thing I do is smile. The reason for the smile is most likely that I consider myself utterly non-controversial. It seems to me that if the practitioner of a particular discipline brings findings to the table and these findings are new, then they can be argued by two distinctly different means. One is academic and the other is practical. It seems very difficult to me to classify as controversial something that the founder has been actually demonstrating for decades.

I don't ask people to accept my concepts because I explain them in a certain way; nor do I request acceptance without extensive trial. I have now been demonstrating my findings to the public for more than twenty years. I suppose I could have asked the public to accept my principles over those twenty years with just five or ten horses as examples. The fact is, however, I have offered in open public forum demonstrations of my work with more than 5,500 horses.

If one should study history in general, it would be evident that new ideas come on line, and virtually all are considered controversial by many until reasonably proven. The status quo is nearly an immovable object and, in fact, as an academic, I am totally in favor of that. New ideas should have to jump through all reasonable hoops lest we follow bad ideas down counterproductive paths. One can site many examples whereby in the past the public accepted unproven concepts only to be negatively effected. It seems wrong, however, for us to steal from ourselves if we test and find a new idea effective over a substantial period of time and yet classify it as controversial.

Add to this mix that I am challenging an 8,000 year old discipline that has changed very little in all that time. I am suggesting that the traditional ways of breaking horses were far less than optimal and, in fact, frankly brutal. While I never say that I blame forerunners for their work, I often state that one must understand that it is the only way they have known. I consider my lot in life not to be judgmental, but to bring to the mix an alternative to what has gone before me. No one on the face of the earth can truthfully say that I have tried to force them to work with their horses by my methods. That would go against the very core of my principles.

Another ingredient that one must consider is that a few people who knew my father suggest that I have spoken of physical abuse in a gratuitous fashion. Some will say that they knew my father and that he was a nice man to them and incapable of brutality. Obviously, those people have not read his book or choose to ignore his own words. Most domestic violence is conducted without public knowledge. I work in this field extensively now and find that to be the case in the majority of situations. The fact is I have proof of permanent injuries that are unexplained in any other way. It happened.

In conclusion, I would ask the public to accept one factor before you label me controversial. I would simply request that I am observed with the realization that I don't tell the public what I believe is right. I show my work over and over again. If there is a true difference of opinion, I have no problem with that. But it is hurtful when words like controversial are laid at my feet while I am openly demonstrating my discipline.

Question: Do you ever have a horse that does not respond to your methods?

Answer: No. However, I believe it is fair to say that they are not really my methods. They are methods that I have observed in nature. It is probably fairer to say that they are the methods of the horses themselves and so, properly executed, there is no way to fail. Should the horseman experience negative results, it is important to look inward. It is undoubtedly not the fault of the horse.

Question: I’ve read that you are working with children using the same principles that you do with horses. How do you make the transition from horses to children?

Answer: "There is practically no transition necessary at all. It is far closer to the same than it is what academics would term a metaphor. Obviously you don’t put children in a round pen and ask them to run circles, but in fact it’s quite close to that.

The key principles involved with children are philosophically aligned quite closely to those I use with young horses. First, eliminate all violence and force! Next, create contracts where positive actions always receive positive consequences and negative actions always receive negative consequences.

The use of this method puts the parent or adult out of the business of punishing. One simply sets up the contracts, which are designed so that there is always a positive and a negative for each of the behaviors involved. Should the child choose to be negative, the discipline is already agreed upon and they automatically know the disciplinary measures. Conversely when the child is positive then the parent or adult must stand ready to perform the positive consequences contracted.

These principles are clearly outlined in my third book entitled Horse Sense For People.

Question: Mr. Roberts, I guess my question is, “Why you?” Why do you think you made these discoveries when human beings had 8,000 years to understand horses and suddenly you reverse the methods that preceded you?

Answer: Well, I guess my answer would be, “I don’t know”. Explore for a moment the possibility that you would visit a class of children learning to swim. Let’s say they were taking their 3rd lesson. Imagine that you spoke with a child that seemed to be swimming very well. Suppose that you asked this youngster “Why is it you’re swimming so well and the others don’t seem to have caught on?” I suggest that this child would say, “I don’t know, it seems easy to me.”

One should remember that I began showing horses in competition before the age of reason. I suppose it’s possible to surmise that it is easier for me to think in the world of horses than the world of people.

I am the worst person on earth to try to answer this question. I have often thought that someone must have understood these concepts long before me. I suppose it is quite possible that there were horsemen who experienced these equine principles long before there were means to communicate them. Quite possibly these things happened before airplanes, telephones and video tapes. It’s possible that someone worked in similar ways in the wilderness during a time when he or she may not have even realized that there was a difference between this way and what was to become traditional.

One thing for certain is that no one chronicled these concepts as I have outlined them. It is true that Xenophon wrote about working with horses in a slightly similar fashion. His writings date to about 360 B.C. and probably more closely approximate my work than anything written since.

I find it amazing that in 1996 when I launched my first book, most horsemen took the position that I was dreaming when I suggested that there was a discernable language that I dubbed the language of Equus. About four years later, traditional horsemen began to write that I wasn’t the first one to discover it saying they knew of people that talked about the language long before my time. Now in 2005 I will often hear “Well, of course there’s a language. We’ve known it all along.” It seems that this is an often traveled past for concepts considered new and original. This doesn’t bother me so long as the horses ultimately benefit from the discoveries I’ve made.

Question: Can anyone become a horse whisperer? It inspires me the way that humans can communicate with horses and I would love to do this.

Answer: Everybody and anybody can be a horse whisperer. If you are diligent about learning the language of the horse and practice as much as you can, you can speak with horses and listen to their communications. The language Equus is predictable, discernable, and effective. It can be taught to anyone – as long as they are open to listening and learning.

If you were to come to my farm right now, I could help you to do a Join-Up with a horse within a few hours, and you would be having a conversation with that horse in the round pen. Learning the intricacies will take far longer, it is a lifelong journey to be the best you can, but certainly, anyone, including you, can be a horse whisperer. Please, if this is your goal, study the methods of the top horse trainers and spend as much time with horses as possible – the horses will be your teachers.

We offer a range of lessons and training programs at Flag Is Up Farms, so if you wish to fulfill your desire to become a horse whisperer, please give us a call at 001 805 688 3483.

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For more information:

www.montyroberts.com

www.join-up.org

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